tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5596708332568087278.post8015914586648780523..comments2024-01-24T10:39:27.668-05:00Comments on Coming Untrue: Too Hot to Handle: The Social Gospel and Social JusticeDr. S. L. Andersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06303707167715370504noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5596708332568087278.post-16057442971642721692014-12-13T18:04:41.203-05:002014-12-13T18:04:41.203-05:00Qman: Actually, that last line is the key one, I ...Qman: Actually, that last line is the key one, I think. <br /><br />The biggest difference between real Christianity and the Social Gospel/ Social Justice set is not over whether the world is a place with injustices in it (it clearly is, as everyone knows). There are the poor, the oppressed, the imprisoned, the victimized and the excluded on every side -- no one doubts that, and even a great many secular persons claim to want to see these things addressed.<br /><br />The question really is this: can we ever have actual justice in this world without the personal presence of the Prince of Peace?<br /><br />The Christian answer is obviously "No." <br /><br />So while we as Christians should do our all to create as much justice in this world as we can, the justice of God ought to be our measuring stick. According to the Lord, the primary need of every person is not merely food and clothing, legitimate as those needs are (as the Lord Himself said), but rather that men and women should "not live by bread alone," but by entering into living relationship with the Heavenly Father through His appointed means, His Son, Jesus Messiah. So as we strive for justice, we must remember that verse Scripture uses four times: "the just shall live by faith." <br /><br />"Without faith, it is impossible to please God," the Scripture also says. And our first "justice" need is to be made just ourselves, but giving up all hope of ever receiving justice, or of imparting it, apart from being declared just by our God -- that is, by being forgiven for our sins through faith in The Just One, Jesus Christ.<br /><br />After that primary need is met, we can think also of imparting justice to others, by forgiving as we have been forgiven, giving as we have received, obeying the call of our Redeemer to seek the lost, the poor, the sick and the persecuted and bring them relief too.<br /><br />But secular social justice will never come on any terms, because it assumes that justice can be achieved through fallen, human means; that is, through the manipulation of social structures by unregenerate man. <br /><br />That's a vain hope.Immanuel Canhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11580529966007662214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5596708332568087278.post-46410122282296227632014-12-13T11:39:38.061-05:002014-12-13T11:39:38.061-05:00Agreed, except for the fact that you, I, and other...Agreed, except for the fact that you, I, and others here are arguing a bit from a view into the rearview mirror. You can say, been there, done that, and so it makes sense to you. Clearly, from a process engineering point of view, the most qualified process engineer thinks that the process put in place is the correct one, and who are we to argue that point. Our responsibility, I think, is to realize that in whatever little way, we are part of the process and, like all human beings, have the assignment to contribute to it in a mostly positive, incremental manner. In other words, we do not have the privilege of a complete overview of God's plans but we are given somewhat of an outline. Now, my point was that it seems obvious that even knocking heads together would not be sufficient to cause people to recognize and interpret the outline correctly. What you and others have implied here is that that is probably mostly due to humanity existing after the fall (even though that was also the case before in paradise, actually resulting in the fall). So, the most significant single factor that drops out of all this, as always, is the existence of free will on our part and the fact that it is actually impaired free will.<br /><br />In short, what I proffered before was a Walt Disney world scenario. The real world is much tougher than that and obviously God thinks that the way things are progressing is the way to go. My personal observation and conclusion is that God allows for competing processes for whatever reason (mostly free will) and that by the nature of this competition the best one will ultimately (have to) win. That would seem unavoidable and always built in in such a competition (see what's currently happening with Islam). The only caveat being Christ's warning about him returning and who he will still find believing then. Qmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5596708332568087278.post-66111639055114495702014-12-13T00:08:45.587-05:002014-12-13T00:08:45.587-05:00Not answering your statement fully except for two ...Not answering your statement fully except for two points from the scripture:<br />1) God is not hidden. Deut. 4:29 "but from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul." <br />Prov 8:17 "I love those who love me and those who seek me diligently will find me." (though it is "wisdom" that is "speaking" here but what wisdom except God's is better to seek? We can't have His wisdom without His person. We have wisdom from our experiences in life to be sure but do I not want to pursue and seek the wisdom from above? Wisdom is based on Truth. Truth is found in Christ).<br />Any who are wanting more than an intellectual argument and are wanting actual truth (Jesus being "The Truth" - the Way, the Life), He is findable to anyone/everyone. Of course one of the "jobs" of the Holy Spirit is that He convicts the sinner of their need for a Savour; He reveals/shows the sinner Truth. The Holy Spirit "prompts" first (we didn't start the process) and we then respond. The Christian can say "we love Him because He first loved us." It all starts with God but our response either opens the door wider or we can desperately try shutting the door to His love and His revealing Himself to us. <br /><br />2) we have a similar appeal to God ("why doesn't God just show Himself to everyone individually?") directly with the account of Lazarus and the rich man (luke 16:19-31) with Lazarus and the rich man having left this earth in death. The rich man in hades appealing to "father Abraham" to send Lazarus from the dead (the rich man doesn't ask that it be himself sent for he absolutely knows he is where he justly deserves to be because of his own rejection of God and scripture's truths) to bring the truth of God to his brothers. The rich man knows his brothes too are ones who are rejecting God and they will end badly unless they repent. The answer comes back (v 29) no, "they have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them" and (v 31) "if they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead." Of course we more today than the rich man had: we have the whole of the Word of God and One has been raised from the dead. <br />WiC<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5596708332568087278.post-74971261681383328132014-12-12T16:01:49.997-05:002014-12-12T16:01:49.997-05:00Food for thought:
The longer I follow this discuss...Food for thought:<br />The longer I follow this discussion on this blog, doing my own research (often with the Wiki lowest common denominator) the more I am convinced that concepts of social justice, universal belief in Christ as the basis for social justice, social justice based on different belief systems, social justice without belief system, namely secular atheistic, represents one of the, or perhaps the, most intractable problem set(s) in human history. The disconcerting fact is of course that, if you belief in the reality of an interested deity, that deity must have known that this type of situation will be the order of the day. So, the real question that needs to be answered (and this is not an attempt to answer it) is therefore, given an interested deity, why logically proceed in such a manner? Now, if I am an atheist, it is perfectly logical to say this could all have been avoided, for example, with the following hypothetical scenario. <br /><br />All of a sudden God simultaneously appears to each individual on planet earth privately, slows time down for a while, while instructing you and I on what is really going on, straightens out misconceptions, provides encouragement, some practical help tailored to the individual's situation, etc.. Then he tells you that now is not the time for him to be here permanently, but that that time will surely come. Then he disappears leaving you with a small practical, material, token recognized by everyone as having to be due to supernatural intervention so everyone knows this really also happened to everyone else. <br /><br />Now, this, according to every camp would then be sufficient to usher in social justice in a way and with an understanding that would (should) satisfy everyone and every faction. Yes, no? Isn't the real mystery to be answered and the real issue to be addressed why this is not happening? Why have a problematic situation from the start when it could/can be avoided with a little clarity? (Of course, now we are back to the Proof of God concept, but this would satisfy the nonbeliever and clear up that concept, yes/no?). Because this could so clearly proof that God really exists and take care of all misunderstanding and disagreement it is one more demonstration that God probably does not exist and that social justice must be implemented as best as humanity can by itself?<br />Qmannoreply@blogger.com