tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5596708332568087278.post3067661675364187382..comments2024-01-24T10:39:27.668-05:00Comments on Coming Untrue: Wikipedia vs. BaptismDr. S. L. Andersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06303707167715370504noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5596708332568087278.post-71993721950590704892019-12-10T21:10:43.816-05:002019-12-10T21:10:43.816-05:00I in turn am a bit surprised that you consider it ...I in turn am a bit surprised that you consider it a curious statement since it's only pointing out two very clear facts.<br /><br />A) You are two thousand years removed from the facts and other people much closer to the facts than that have arrived at sound conclusions that, as a Protestant, you choose to claim to know better 1000 to 2000 years later and to ignore. I am saying that's highly unlikely. <br /><br />B) Also, you ignore when I tell you how baptism is really viewed in the Catholic church, which is actually quite similar to the Protestant view (who evidently took it from the Catholics) except Catholics are not shy about procedure and pomp and circumstance, especially where a King is concerned. From what I see here the pomp and circumstance is a major thorn in the side of the Evangelicals when it should be totally irrelevant especially in regard to keeping Christian's apart from each other. Frankly, I don't think that will go over well with our creator.<br />Qmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5596708332568087278.post-83964134842208935142019-12-07T05:13:50.611-05:002019-12-07T05:13:50.611-05:00"All of this discourse brings up another poin...<b>"All of this discourse brings up another point namely that you are working at a slight disadvantage being thousands of year removed from everything but presuming that no one else historically closer to New Testament events had sufficient intellect and thought things through and arrived at more valid conclusions than you which gave us our traditions."</b><br /><br />What a curious statement, Q! I am going right back to the first century for my authority and saying we should do baptism the way it was done in scripture itself, and understand it in the way the earliest Christians understood it. All the "traditions" you refer to were developed much later.<br /><br />Moreover, it has nothing to do with "intellect" or "thinking things through". It's about simple obedience.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00346761712248157930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5596708332568087278.post-38974539809778239292019-12-06T23:28:02.639-05:002019-12-06T23:28:02.639-05:00"Water baptism is merely symbolic. It has no ..."Water baptism is merely symbolic. It has no magical properties. It does not confer salvation, and it does not make you a different person, a church member or anything else."<br /><br />Well, yes and know. It certainly has a purpose and confers specific results, all of which you are mentioning here concerning baptism. It's clear that you have to distinguish between the ceremonial tool and the conferred benefit (as in most ceremonial, usually institutional, settings.) E.g. in the Catholic Church "what if" questions are sometimes asked like what if I am in distress in a desert with an unbaptized friend and water is not available when he dies but he wants to be baptized at this final moment? At that time you can do a baptism of faith with him and baptize him on the basis of his desire and new found faith. So indeed water is a tradition and symbolism that goes with baptism but is replaceable. <br /><br />All of this discourse brings up another point namely that you are working at a slight disadvantage being thousands of year removed from everyhing but presuming that no one else historically closer to New Testament events had sufficient intellect and thought things through and arrived at more valid conclusions than you which gave us our traditions. That is of course an improbable and incorrect scenario and has contributed to the fractured nature of the Christian faith nowadays because it has been the case and duplicated by many personages throughout history. <br /><br />An interesting example and discussion of this topic is provided here contradicting the traditional Protestant ideas about saved by faith alone regardless of works and so on. <br /><br />https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Perspective_on_Paul<br />Qmannoreply@blogger.com